An Issue Regarding Sexism with the Game/Forums

[Imagineer_V]

@LilRubyKinz

I actually did, you always have and still are welcome to elaborate!

It is quite difficult to articulate. The part where I share my experience is a good start. I have not experienced discrimination because I did feel included once I figured things out. The biggest thing is when talking about female characters to just be more careful about what you say because sometimes it can be seen as offensive or stereotyping. Being more careful with what you say in general is not that hard and it should just be done no matter what the subject matter is. That would solve a lot of it actually.

Another thing is first off no matter who you are not being afraid to tell people something is wrong about a post in a manner that is respectful. Give them a small suggestion to improve while you are at it. Part of this fear is what contributed to me not just telling people flat out because I was afraid of being denied, receiving rude response, or flagged myself.

And not to sound mean or rude, but I hope that others can rethink what they said as well and consider all viewpoints. While making the original post I did not think of some of the things that I have always agreed with, such as inner qualities being more important. I also hope for an apology in a way or another.

Well I have to go now. Continue this later.

[Tilarta]

Yes, we know that the offensive individuals are wrong, but from their perspective (which I do not condone or support), we are the ones with the wrong opinion and they cannot be convinced that the sky is blue just because they say it is green.
As the expression goes, the first step in dealing with a problem is admitting there is one.

From a psychological standpoint, some people go into gaming for specific reasons, to compensate for low self-esteem by becoming somebody important in the gaming community and to let go of the behavorial conventions reasonable people are expected to follow.
In other words, they become online bullies of the worst kind.
Because there is no physical risk or repercussions from their actions and they use the flimsy excuse because nobody was physically harmed, they can malign them however they like.
A fictional tv show even had the heroine confront a bully who claimed because he was only mentally hurting people, no harm was done and her response was “but you have harmed them”.

For this specific issue, male players in multiplayer games believe female characters exist just to be objectified and since they cannot be convinced otherwise, I just try to avoid them, even to the point of refusing to play with them online.

[Foxy_bingo]

I just want to point out the fact that I’m sorry for accidently saying 'he’s when I refer to you. It’s an accident and I promise I dont mean it in an offensive way.
Advice I can give is renember the fact that your gender does not define who you are. YOU define who you are. (If that helps, also if anyone read that in a different way and thought I ment somthing offensive pleasetell me so I can edit it instead of flagging it)

[Turned_To_Sin]

@Tilarta

I just try to avoid them, even to the point of refusing to play with them online.

This is the best thing you can do, not including reports, flags etc. Trolls will exist as long as humanity is a thing, and the easiest way to fight them is just not giving them fuel to continue. If anyone sees someone who starts harassing you cause of your race, gender or anything-just turn around and save your own nerves. Those screamers aren’t worth your attention. There are still a lot of people who will judge you as a person, how you behave, and I personally find it much more fair.
I do not say the problem doesn’t exist, of course it does. But I doubt that direct strikes will help. Those are like a hydra-chop a head, and a new one grows, maybe even several. Just do not let yourself get drowned by them on their level.

[Imagineer_V]

@Tilarta

I just try to avoid them, even to the point of refusing to play with them online.

@Turned_To_Sin

This is the best thing you can do, not including reports, flags etc.

But the issue is, it is becoming hard to ignore and beyond that just flag and ignore or report. Something I notice is that when it is done publicly, people let it happen. They do not say anything of it and continue to make similar jokes or statements that can be hurtful.

@Turned_To_Sin

But I doubt that direct strikes will help.

I think it helps to a certain point, especially with comments that are not intentional and people who are not the extreme end. I am not just talking about the extreme cases here. I am talking about all of it. I understand that nothing will likely happen once I leave, and that would disappoint me. The strike does not even have to be a strike at all. It can be super simple to kindly point it out and say why it is offensive. PMs exist as well and that can be done more easily now due to the forums’ feature of kicking out and leaving your own PM.

[PawpsicleSticks]

@Imagineer_V

Another thing is first off no matter who you are not being afraid to tell people something is wrong about a post in a manner that is respectful. Give them a small suggestion to improve while you are at it.

I agree, we need more constructive criticism, and less Gordon Ramseys running around.

[Imagineer_V]

Exactly. Gordon Ramsey… lmao.

[Filadae_Djaq]

…someone’s flagging our posts now

[Lucas1999]

Maybe because it was a little bit harsh and not really a contribution to the discussion??

What you wrote is what one would call ad hominem…

[Tilarta]

Well, in one specific game, I did speak up at least twice, it was not appreciated.
Each successive time, when I raised the topic, they ridiculed my opinion because they did not see what was wrong with doing so.
So I made a personal rule, if I ended up on a team play mission with those players, I’d simply quit the team and take an ingame penalty called a AFK penalty for doing so, which blocks me from team play for 30 minutes,
They might not figure it out, but at some point, they’d have to wonder why someone was choosing to take an AFK penalty rather then play wth them.

Which I think is the underlying issue here, in all multiplayer games, not just this one.
The obectifiers have become so used to banding together and forming communities ingame that they think what they do is perfectly normal, especially if it’s a game which provides certain costume options to cater to their aesthetic fashionable perspacity.

[Imagineer_V]

@Tilarta

Which I think is the underlying issue here, in all multiplayer games, not just this one.

Yep. It is not just objectifying as well.

[Joey_Cannoli]

@Filadae_Djaq

…someone’s flagging our posts now

Yes, it seems someone is giving us false flags, probably because we disagreed with Imagineer’s statements. I don’t know who it is (although I have my suspicions), but whoever it is, it’s sad that they can’t handle opinions they don’t like and have to resort to what basically amounts to censorship.

What did your posts get flagged for, Filadae? Mine were flagged for being “inappropriate”. (???)

[Filadae_Djaq]

@Joey_Cannoli

Mine were flagged for being “inappropriate”.

Same

[Imagineer_V]

@Joey_Cannoli

probably because we disagreed with Imagineer’s statements

Technically… if that were the case every post would have been flagged.

[Filadae_Djaq]

@Imagineer_V

if that were the case every post would have been flagged

Which means: false flag

[Tilarta]

I am starting to wonder if gaming communities in general are being used as a tool to be discriminatory and send their message to a global audience easily, some of the forum topics/posts I have seen have been incredulous to behold and those espousing those views considered it perfectly acceptible to espouse those views, even though they’re being objectionable to certain demographics.

The worst example I’ve seen is a Fleet created with a mission statement of “raising awareness”, but in defending themselves, they actively attack anyone else, even minority demographics because they view anyone not supporting them as rivals or enemies.

So starting to wonder if the sexism topic we are discussing here is just symptomatic of a larger issue, that those who want to be aggressively discriminatory are drawn to gaming.

[Imagineer_V]

Lucas explained that you made a statement of ad hominem. That is when someone makes an argument based on personal attack. Other statements did not do that, so that is your explanation.

@Tilarta

But please let me know if the following text is offtopic and I will remove it.

It is, but thanks for sharing. We should try to get back on topic now.

@Imagineer_V

And not to sound mean or rude, but I hope that others can rethink what they said as well and consider all viewpoints. While making the original post I did not think of some of the things that I have always agreed with, such as inner qualities being more important. I also hope for an apology in a way or another.

Just pointing this out again. Is there anything specific that someone would want me to explain or talk about such as possible solutions and tips on how to help?

[Black_Widow]

I just want to say I think we have a really nice community here, it may not be perfect and of course there’s some bad apples but there’s decent ways to report inappropriate behavior, maybe sometimes harsher punishments are needed but generally I think things are taken care of well.

I think the real issue is society is taking it’s time to catch up with the changing views of people (a change that really should have happened a long time ago) and therefore there’s still people with narrow opinions of women’s place in society.

So we have to keep up awareness and strive to make a difference!

[PawpsicleSticks]

@Tilarta

I like the idea that the game provided the opportunity for me to be a virtual vegetarian, so took Herbivore and publicly said so.
That earned me a lot of hate posts because certain players believe Carnivore is the only way to play the game

Was it because they didn’t like vegans, or just because Carnivores had better skills and stat boosts and whatnot? You’d see something similar happen if someone started posting about using Ralph, S&N, etc in their team.

Also, why did you feel the need to make it a public statement? The “preachy vegan” stereotype probably doesn’t help…

[Sir_Kenzi]

THIS. The tone in some of those comments seem dismissive (not saying they were intended to be). And what is wrong with considering gender when considering whether to release a character if they are worthy? If there are 100 worthy/qualified male characters and only 10 worthy/qualified female characters, why would you only release two female characters when you could release five to balance the scales a little and add more representation? Something to consider. Don’t all pounce at once.

As for the sexism and harassment that exists in the game, someone said that it affects everyone. Yes, but not to the same degree. I’ve known several female players who’ve had to change their names to something masculine or gender neutral to avoid being inundated with obscene and/or unwanted comments, unwanted nudes and invites for dates. PB was notified and the offenders persisted, indicating that not much, if anything, was done. Speaking to the offenders directly about their offensive behavior more often than not exacerbates the situation and in the process subjects the reporter to bullying. It’s a game, not a dating site and this fact eludes many.