A couple of words about the new hero balancing

[Phal]

@TheGrillFather

Seeing just how much the standard for stats has been lowered with this change, I expect very heavy negative feedback to be given at first - and honestly I would kinda understand it from the perspective of people that are thinking short term. Before that happens, I want to say that imo this is still looking promising - if every hero was brought to this standard, which I assume is the end goal, things would be quite well balanced.

From a quick look, the heroes look from fairly solid (when not going vs the broken ones that is), to some of them actually terrible even for a perfectly balanced game (this could change a bit with testing).
I do want to say though, a few nerfs (stats given by a few disks, and Ron’s green skill slow effect) were a little too harsh I think, not even beta disks that were never changed like Frozone’s and Jack Jack’s go that low.

I’ll keep trying them out to form a more proper opinion. Meanwhile, if anyone wants to use this post to give their own feedback, feel free to do so.

PS: Were the stats given by badges actually changed? I might be wrong but I don’t see much difference at all…

[Musketeer-Endgame]

@Phal

PS: Were the stats given by badges actually changed? I might be wrong but I don’t see much difference at all…

It was just promotions

Before

After

[Phal]

We mostly just need a bit more HP, armor and reality I think… extra HP would be nice from ranks

[Ranver]

I think some balance went too far but are they okay? I have many doubts why all the resources to take an album to the maximum now seem like a waste, honestly it’s not worth it.

[Phal]

If you mean the disks… I don’t know?
The scalings are way higher than pre-patch times, so the ones that give BD and SP will still probably be worth it in the end despite not giving a lot.

The defensive ones I have doubts if they’re not increased a bit

[Turned_To_Sin]

Have to be fair, the new stats I just saw seem…pretty fair, I like it. At least there is no that issue with a toon dealing 1000x more damage with one slap then anyone can handle with no disks. Bonuses become bonuses, not replacing the core stats. The only downside is short term, cause with some insane guys out of the way, the others will thrive. Not for long, hopefully.
The only concern I have is that with ranks becoming more relevant again, the recent stamina cost increase will hurt even more

[TheGrillFather]

Thanks for starting this thread! It’s an iterative process so we’re keeping an eye on what everyone thinks, we’ll have a bit more info written up soon!

[Musketeer-Endgame]

@TheGrillFather

we’ll have a bit more info written up soon!

About what exactly?

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And yes, nerfs to armor/reality in disks and red skills were way TOO BIG.

[Phal]

This +10-15B HP isn’t enough with that damage

But yeah I like where it’s going overall

[unique_Teddy]

Why did shego and kim and monkey fist get no adjustment? But yet sulley and mike got huge hp jumps

My yellow 5 Kim is more squishy then my yellow 0 Mike
And mind you their both damage heroes

[Waiting_for_Nick_Rework]

@Musketeer-Endgame

And yes, nerfs to armor/reality in disks and red skills were way TOO BIG.

Same with eda and her numbers its going to be killer until she is nerfed
@TheGrillFather you guys nerfed a ton of edas big counters right off the bat, could you guys worm for eda next update or even b4 that. I understand you guys are busy but when you take toons like rose,barley,manticore etc and nerf them, eda because 10x harder than she already is! I don’t like calling for nerfs but honestly something needs to he done

Thanks for reading

[Director_Mallard_II]

I don’t know about other heroes but Sulley himself took the hardest hit, especially with his Woody disc

At 5 star:

1. Pre-refresh: 125%

2. Post-refresh: 300%

3. Post-rebalance: 50%

I mean, seriously, what happened? If you guys want to balance him, why didn’t you guys decrease % to its original star? 50% is basically nothing…

And we can’t change disc for him as it is tied directly to his red skill

Pls check @TheGrillFather

And 1 more thing, now that the bonus stat for disc have been nerfed significantly, I don’t see any reason we need to max it anymore. The cost is way too high and the bonuses are just horrible…

[Director_Mallard_II]

@Turned_To_Sin

The only concern I have is that with ranks becoming more relevant again, the recent stamina cost increase will hurt even more

People said ranks we’re irrelevant… So of course they would do this. To make sure people need to chase the highest rank…

And with the insane stamina cost, we all know what this means. This is just a grand scheme to make more money, nothing else

[Musketeer-Endgame]

Why was slow nerfed here so much? Why was it even changed?

It was always 75% for 14 seconds, since his release.
It never was 30%, and only for 5 seconds. Useless.

Blue skill stunned for 16 seconds now only 8.

[SaveElle]

Yeah I like the change so that I’m not counting place value - thousands, millions, billions, trillions… while most heroes only go to single-digit millions (e.g. 1 to 9 million) and the few OP gives team trillions (e.g. Baloo 40T Armor and Reality - Goodbye Jungle Book, you’re next!).

The slippery slope probably started around Shego’s time and slowly ramped up exponential damage and stats. Now, Shere, Luz, and friends have damage in the trillions for each of their skills.

I just want to know what happened around August with the Bug’s Life, Onwards, and Jungle Book refreshes. Did an employee accidentally multiply by 1,000,000 and no one double checked their work? If you reverted those refreshes and fixed the few outliers (Owl House, Kuzco, Tron, Dante, and Pegasus), then balancing numbers around the low billions would be much easier. I just hope this weird transition time where 10 heroes are insanely imbalanced only lasts for a month.

Also, I’d like a trash compactor for Barley, maybe Flik, to get their disk power back. Waste of resources.

[Jody_Caviness]

Yeah, most of the changes in this round seemed focused on rolling back the more extreme stat inflation, but some, like those changes on Ron, ended up going back to 2018-era numbers. Even if one wants to argue that 75% for 14 seconds is too strong a slow, reducing it to only 30% and for only 5 seconds renders the slow almost pointless. I hope the team is also keeping track of changes like this as something they’ll reconsider going ahead.

@SaveElle

I’d like a trash compactor for Barley, maybe Flik, to get their disk power back. Waste of resources.

My hope is that their disk numbers will return to being strong once we get further into the rebalancing process; right now they do look low, especially with armor & reality negation being more widespread, so that’s something to keep an eye on in the coming months.

[Phal]

75% is fine really, even now it’s 80% with Launchpad disk. You won’t notice a difference often from 75% to more since most of the time heroes that slow will be flinched out of every animation. 30% just doesn’t do much…
The duration nerf I think was also a bit too harsh, it doesn’t need 14 seconds since the cooldown is a lot lower than it used to be but like, 10 would be fine. 5 just expires so fast (and it’s not one like Flash’s debuffs which apply other stuff after they expire, so shorter duration helps the kit).

[Musketeer-Endgame]

Ron is very bad after this nerf, out of all heroes he got some weird 2018 numbers. And without armor and reality and reflect nerf he dies no matter what. He stands no chance.

[LeandroCoelho]

They nerfed everyone a lot.
They don’t know the difference between nerfing some less and others more.
The average hp of nerfed heroes is between 10 and 18 billion, so far so good.
But why does Kim have Pv below 10 billion?
Very drastically reduced Sulley’s disc stats and Ron’s abilities.
Honestly, I’m against making characters worse in this way.
It was only HP level (between 10 and 18 billion) and damage in the billions range.
But you ended up killing some characters, now from OP they’ve become bad, not even average.
I hope there is a fix for these things because it’s all nonsense.
The idea is great, but in some points very poorly executed!!!

Will there only be nerfs? There will be no more buffs???

Why make characters pretty really bad??? This is something inexplicable

[Phal]

@TheGrillFather just gonna leave here a few suggestions that could be addressed in addition to the next batch of hero rebalancing in 2 weeks. These changes would set a good baseline for all other re-balanced heroes going forward.

• First of all, increasing the HP given by ranks/badges. Ideally this would be somewhere between 50B and 100B at the current max rank. This is necessary to prevent free one-shots. I don’t think they need to be impossible to achieve, but any damage hero being able to do this without any external buffs is just not right.

• Then, I’m gonna bring back some attention to the fact that stats given by disk and red skills were nerfed too harshly. After more testing I am even more sure of this. A good baseline would be the following:

• HP could be around half of what is given via badges, meaning a hero that gets it from both their red skill and their disk effectively doubles their HP.

• Basic Damage and Skill Power don’t need massive changes but in a lot of cases could still use some adjustments. For example, Shego’s disk gives her 120M skill power. I get it that she hits a lot and all her damage is multiplied by 6 thanks to her generous crit stats, so she doesn’t need the base numbers of someone that doesn’t crit, but this overcompensates.

• Armor and reality are the biggest offenders, as the amount the rebalanced disks give is completely irrelevant for anything that is affected by them, from stuff like Clawhauser’s disk and Calhoun’s red skill to even simply damage reductions. Ideally they should be about 1/10 of what HP is, giving an around 50% damage reduction to the hero vs enemies without negation stats (which I remind you every hero can get now, so it’s not like it would make anyone even close to unkillable either). And then balance heroes like Calhoun and Clawhauser around this. Like I’d way rather have Clawhauser get a significant amount of reality and then give 2% of it as BD than him get essentially nothing and then give 100% of it.

I really hope this can be looked into within the next batch of re-balances, or the next few batches at least.