An Issue Regarding Sexism with the Game/Forums

Imagineer_V · February 28, 2021, 4:31am

Hi everyone. Imagineer here with another topic that has been on my mind for quite some time. Before I get into this know that this is not to direct hate towards any one person or PerBlue and Disney. I am making general statements to bring awareness to a problem that really has frustrated me the more I have been on the forums. Please feel free to continue this conversation, which I believe is very important and I hope others can say the same.

The only thing I ask is that we refrain from talking about politics.

Rant Warning (sort of)

What I am Talking About + Research/Statistics

After talking I realize what I was talking about was gender stereotypes rather than the other thing, which is where the craziness ensued. Looking at replies all sides of conversation were making massive generalizations about the other.

Some stereotypes I have noticed:

Usually, RPGs are played more by males than females.
Game developers and the computer science industry are dominated by males despite increases. This likely heavily applies to this game.
Females are stereotyped as “not the fighting” type and many other stereotypes that still are in place to this day.

The list of them goes on and on, but you get the idea. These stereotypes and many other factors greatly affect this game and the evidence is everywhere. Honestly, it can become borderline sexist and feed into the sexism that girls and women face every single day.

Sexism is for those of you not familiar with the term by now "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of gender."

This is a helpful article written by Microsoft that further explains what I am talking about. It is a lot to discuss all in one post and that is a bit too much work.

My Experience with this Problem

I have come across sexism in the game and even the forums, and as one person there is only so much I can do to address things. This is something that infuriates me the most and I have quite a few anecdotes and stories to share of times where I have faced this.

The Game

The biggest thing I have noticed when I did play the game is this:

Users and players would sometimes make comments that were rude towards me and others who were female. Not only is this bullying, but sexist.
Sometimes when gender came up as a topic of conversation on global and if you mentioned you were a girl, you would automatically get friend requests. What did that lead to? Creepy people who use this game to online date. You know who you are. Sometimes this would lead to harassment and much worse. If you lied about your personal info you usually were safe. That is messed up.
On Server 19 there were people that were publicly harassing others. I cannot say the same for other servers, but again that is messed up.
People allowed it to continue instead of blocking and reporting. Many people need to do this so that these issues can be solved and dealt with.

Those are the big things with that. Moving on to the forums.

Forums

Thankfully, it is much more mild here, but stuff still happens.

Forumers have sometimes made comments I have found offensive and sexist. Usually I just say nothing and give people a second chance.
However if it continues I usually flag it for inappropriate and mention something that hints at it being sexist without calling them out. This usually happens with discussions around female characters and most recently, Raya and the Last Dragon things.
One time with a spammer I will not get into.

That is pretty much it. This thread is meant to be a safe space. Feel free to share your own experiences if you have had any.

My Suggestions

There are a couple of things that can be done to fix these issues.

We can and should work towards calling people out who do things and help teach people a lesson on this. I have already worked towards this and it is pretty simple all things considered. This goes for the game and the forums.

There are others but I am a bit winded out at the moment.

As Walt Disney put it wonderfully, “There’s a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream a way.” Let’s make this dream a reality together.

Commander-Rex · February 28, 2021, 5:04am

This is a fantastic topic that honestly should be shown to PB and all game developers, it is a fantastic discussion not only about diversity in pop culture but in diversity in our human society and how it can truly affect us.

Every single word here really hits me hard, even as a guy and I’m sure it hits that much harder as a girl. I really appreciate the effort put into this post also, it shows how much you really care about this issue and by extension, it makes me care more. And I’m sure it makes others care. I am looking very forward to celebrating Women’s History Month and I hope everyone else does also. I agree with you also, Spark. Jewish History Month is also very important for us.

Once again, the biggest takeaway should be how we can play a part in making the change. Because if we want to make the world a better place, we should take a look at ourselves and make a change. A wise man once said that. I think you know who.

But I truly will consider this and deeply think about is as I hope you all do as well. Peace out and remember "Be the change."

Champion_David · February 28, 2021, 5:13am

Just a double check, is this meant to be a debate, or just an agreement and story thread?

Because if you aren’t looking for it to turn into a debate…then I won’t be voicing my opinion.

Gjmguy · February 28, 2021, 5:15am

I agree that we shouldn’t make this political, but with the way the world (specifically the US) is going, it’s hard to find an issue that isn’t divisive.

Same as David.

SlyFan · February 28, 2021, 5:20am

A well meaning article, but I don’t think this type of thing really applies to the game. They’re more searching for what characters are the most popular.

Also, it’s just a fact that Disney films have more males characters who comprise the staff than females.

Alladin:
Males: Alladin, Jafar, Genie, Sultan, Iago
Females: Jasmine

Zootopia:
Males: Nick, Bogo, Clawhauser, Mr Big, Yax, Finnick
Females: Judy…and Bonnie I guess?

Princess and the Frog:
Males: Naveen, Ray, Louis, Dr. Facilier, Big Daddy (can’t remember his name at the top of my head), Lawrence
Females: Tiana, Mama Odie, Charlotte

So while males definitely outnumber females, I don’t think it’s lack of foresight, but rather a lack of female characters available in general.

Filadae_Djaq · February 28, 2021, 5:23am

Gazelle… Bellwether…

But I see your point

SlyFan · February 28, 2021, 5:24am

How did I forget those two? But yeah, the number is still naturally off.

Gjmguy · February 28, 2021, 5:25am

This. Also, considering most of the old memorable Disney movies are prince saves princess stories, it is difficult to craft said female characters available into fighters for the game.

You have characters like Anna who are highly requested, but PerBlue cannot create a fitting or creative skill set for them.

SlyFan · February 28, 2021, 5:28am

Definitely true regarding certain characters not being able to be in the game. And of course, the female/male ratio hardly matters in films. It depends on whose the focus and what roles are being played, no matter what gender.

LilRubyKinz · February 28, 2021, 5:30am

Ok, I read through this and I wasn’t sure if I should respond, since I do hold an opinion counter to yours, but I do feel inclined to express my thoughts on this recurring theme.

I just so desperately wish people could see past gender - past the numbers - and just see a person.

I think it’s not much secret that I adore Frozen, and Elsa is my favourite character. When I saw the movie back in 2013, I could see myself on the screen. Her fears, her struggles, even her mannerisms - I felt a strong connection to this amazing character Disney created.

And, believe it or not - I’m not female. I’m not Norwegian. I share no physical qualities with this character.

And I don’t see why I need to.

I don’t believe having a perfect 51% female and 49% male spread would improve the quality of the game, or a girl’s playing experience. Fairness does not mean exactly equal.

There are plenty of great female characters that belong in the game - I’ve been waiting a long while for Anna - but to say that she should be added because she is female is to deny her recognition of all her other wonderful defining traits.

She shouldn’t be added because she’s a female. She shouldn’t be added as a buffer for a percent point. She should be added simply because she is a great and well-loved character. It seems that’s what PB has been striving for, and I commend them for that.

Thanks for reading an alternative view.

SlyFan · February 28, 2021, 5:34am

That, as well as the rest of what you said, basically hits it on the nail.

I mean yeah there’s a lot of males, but most of them are supporting characters in the movies. Zootopia, Moana, Tangled, Frozen, and Princess and the Frog are just a few of the films I can think of that have more males in it, but feature a female as the lead.

It’s all about who they are, not how many there are.

Spark · February 28, 2021, 5:37am

Do not take this the wrong way, you just need to read it correctly

I wish to be in a world where it is not a big deal when a minority gets attention, because everything should be judged by kindness and love but not the color of our skin and our race.

Slinky-Dog · February 28, 2021, 5:42am

I appreciate that you are passionate about equality @Imagineer_V but I feel that this is taking it too far.

Others have already summed it up beautifully. The gender discrepancy is largely due to the lack of prominent female characters in Disney movies. While there are many female protagonists there aren’t as many 2nd tier female characters so it is understandable that there is a distinct difference.

And as LilRubyKinz said we shouldn’t be viewing the DHBM roster in terms of gender but rather we should want to see characters that have made a positive difference.

Imagineer_V · February 28, 2021, 6:04am

I guess as long as it is extremely respectful I do not see any problem with it. This as you can probably tell, is an issue I care a lot about.

It relates so well I couldn’t not hint at it.

Same there

Yep. It does not need to be. It is more important to create the social change rather than argue about it.

While I agree there are many female characters that Disney has to offer and PB can and should try to use them.

It matters now. Whether you agree or not. The program at Pixar was used for background characters. It is not even about the main characters or the focus. Everyone should have characters to look to.

Me too. I am no longer sitting on the sidelines about this.

And I am not denying that either. I look at a character for their inward qualities more than the outward, but both need to be considered when you are discussing this issue. For example, I relate to Ian from Onward because of his awkward teenage experiences and his insecurity.

THIS. I think there are people who are in a way reading this as an attack on themselves, which is not the case and also yes reading it the wrong way.

I knew exactly what I was getting into when I wrote this. I knew I would get backlash for this. And you know what, I do not care.

Spark · February 28, 2021, 6:06am

I do not care either, our voices need to be heard.

Filadae_Djaq · February 28, 2021, 6:09am

I wouldn’t call it backlash…

Imagineer_V · February 28, 2021, 6:15am

General terms here. It is late where I live as well.

Mister_Toon · February 28, 2021, 6:27am

She’s right. I crunched the numbers. There are 41 female fighters (Counting Dory, Nala, Shock, and Boo) out of 138 fighters and counting.

And as for me myself personally, i would love to see more female characters in the game.

I mean come on, a female was the lead character in the first film of the disney animation canon for crying out loud. So, you know Disney was ahead of the time.

And as for wheither Snow White, Cinderella, or Aurora would get in the game. Well, you’d be surprised how creative they can get. And they would be perfect for the upcoming addition for next month. Who knows? Maybe even Raya and Sisu would get in in March as well.

So, to get to the point, i am all for it.

Imagineer_V · February 28, 2021, 6:27am

Looking back on this… I meant for the focus to be on the stuff that the community can handle more directly, which is the sexist comments and the other things, so yeah. If we can try to shift focus to that… it would be better for all of us.

Spark · February 28, 2021, 6:31am

Creepy/Sexist comments are all over my global… they are spammy too, so I do not use GC anymore… both the players, and the game need to change.