An Issue Regarding Sexism with the Game/Forums

[Lucas1999]

On the first I might add that the so called
Bechdel-test is often failed in (older) movies. While not all fail on the first criteria of having multiple women in the movie, still quite some fail that way.

So those problems don’t really help for the game. However, I do agree PB could try to do more effort. The Rocketeer as sign-in for March is not that great achievement we are looking for…

@Imagineer_V

Looking back on this… I meant for the focus to be on the stuff that the community can handle more directly, which is the sexist comments and the other things, so yeah. If we can try to shift focus to that… it would be better for all of us.

To continue though, I would say we ignore in our comments the part that is much more important. As @Imagineer_V states in the quote above, it is even more important to talk about inclusivity in the game and on the forums, amongst each other.

I too have seen creepy stuff on global (not towards me, but still) and maybe we (including me) should do more on the side of reporting unacceptable behaviour

[Imagineer_V]

@Lucas1999

Bechdel-test is often failed in (older) movies. While not all fail on the first criteria of having multiple women in the movie, still quite some fail that way.

I have heard of this. I should have mentioned it.

@Lucas1999

However, I do agree PB could try to do more effort. The Rocketeer as sign-in for March is not that great achievement we are looking for…

Yeah it is a bad look now I know when the month is. I think I will try to celebrate a specific woman every day on this thread for fun for March because PB won’t. Short and sweet simple stuff. Not that it is bad that PB added Rocketeer. Just bad timing.

@Lucas1999

it is even more important to talk about inclusivity in the game and on the forums, amongst each other.

Yep. I got a little to ranty to try to communicate this.

[Tilarta]

I would not mind more female characters in the game.
Yes, I am a male player, but that has nothing to do with my reasons for wanting them.

My favorite characters have been the female ones, just because I find them engaging or entertaining for one reason or another.
Gogo Tomago, Ariel, Anna and Raya are the ones I am looking forward to the most.

Gogo and Raya seem more the lightning bruiser type, so it’s unlikely they’d be tanks. Likewise, Mirage, Shego, Rose and Vanessa Doofensmirtz would also be the LBfighter type.

Nani from Lilo&Stitch might be a good Tank style girl, the show mentioned she’s very much into working out for physical strength, then features her lifting a very heavy pile of objects to casually toss them aside.
On that subject, a small percentage of the Experiments are also female, so they could be a possible source of more feminine representation.

Big Hero 6 gives us Karmi, Megan and Bessie.
For female villians from the same show, there is Momokase, Juniper, Barb and Di Amara.
Tiana could be another one they could possibly add.
Arista would be nice, as she’s the only one of Ariel’s sisters who got independent character development (Beached episode from the tv series), but it’s unlikely they’d add any of those girls.

Unfortunately, the remaining strong female characters I could think of won’t get any representation ingame, because an artificial stigmata has been attached to them being Disney Junior characters.
If you’re looking to denigrate those characters based on that principle, don’t waste my time with vitriolic responses.
The list is: Elena, Naomi, Luna, Sofia, Kit Secord, Doc McStuffins.
Luna is the only one on that list who could qualify as tankish, being a large and strong feline predator,

And for a related topic, when I mentioned that a certain Transformers game had female Autobots, they said those playable characters were irrevalent because “females did not matter”.
Hasbro apparently has been aware of this for some time, that the female demographic in the Transformers universe has been underrepresented, so they created the Caminan offshoot species, who are 90% female.
The explanation for their existence was their species were purposefully created to compensate for the lack of Transformer females.
And by the way, two Caminan females in that game are Tank class warriors.

[Pipsqueak]

@Imagineer_V

most female characters can be found in Control, Support, and Damage roles. Very little Tanks

I think this is representative of all the heroes in game - there just aren’t a lot of tanks.

If we are looking for heroes who female players can feel empowered by, let’s not forget that the strongest and most overpowered hero in game for a long time was (still is!) a female

I agree that it would be nice for the ratio to be less lop-sided, but I doubt it’s as simple as PB being sexist or not wanting to add more females. Most of the characters aren’t even human, so I’d be surprised if they had thought about it. We also know that Disney have at least some influence on who gets added to the game.

Things like trolls in game chat & on the forums are nothing to do with PB or the game specifically - sadly these kind of things exist with any online platform. The people saying these things can hide behind their screen and denounce whoever or whatever stereotype they like to try to get a reaction. The only thing to do is to Ignore, Block & Report, and that way PB can kick them out.

I doubt the game will ever reach 1:1 in hero genders as that would mean every character added for like over a year would have to be female, but if there was equality going forwards it wouldn’t hurt anyone.

[Lucas1999]

@Thedarklord Obi-Wan has a message for you regarding your post:

But serious, you may disagree with everything that has been posted, but please do so in a more mannered way. No swearing and that kind of stuff please

[Thedarklord]

not all perblue either theres been people asked for men and women take kim.possible highly asked for. They have stated old classics will appear this year i half expect snow white Cinderella to be in there

[Champion_David]

I’m thinking that the main reason there is more males than females is because of the movie setting. Here’s some examples:

Snow White: To follow the fairytale, this automatically requires eight males and two females. There isn’t any other cast seen, not counting the magic mirror.

Pocahontas: This was set in a time where males were chiefs, women were wives. If you yeet Pocahontas into the role of chief, you make the story unrealistic for its setting. Having her choose whom to marry is the right amount of difference to make her stand apart while still conforming to the times.

Moana: The stark opposite of Moana is actually funny. Moana’s tribe had no issue making her the chief, but Moana takes off in the dead of night, granted with her grandma’s permission. To her credit, she didn’t try to shirk her responsibilties, just had to forgo helping her people directly.

Mulan: Hardly fair to assume a perfect ration of characters when the story is about a girl in an all male army, which again conforms to the time setting.

The Little Mermaid: Counting all of Ariel’s sisters, and Ursula, the female cast beats the male cast 8 to 3. Is that an issue? Not with the setting of the story, or based on the real fairytail. However, I wonder if you think there should be more mermales within here, or if it only matters that it isn’t equal when there’s a male majority.

Setting is important, if you write a story outside of the setting, it becomes unrealistic.

As for needing an exact ratio of background characters, no offense, but do you understand what you are saying? You need background characters, who have no speaking parts or interactions with any character in the story to be female. A character with no actions will hardly be a role model, so why does it matter what their gender is? I don’t even notice back ground characters on my first watch of a movie.

As for the sexism on the forums. If you think someone is being sexist, but don’t tell them outright, then you are not helping the situation at all. People can misunderstand and miscommunicate. Certain people on this forums are trolls, I grant you that, but alot of people might say something don’t mean to sound rude or sexist. Pointing this out to them can be a great way of helping them grow.

[LilRubyKinz]

@Champion_David

Setting is important, if you write a story outside of the setting, it becomes unrealistic.

Yep, and that’s part of why I felt the need to say something. Realism doesn’t matter anymore.

The global climate has gotten to the point that these numbers are more important than the characters and the storyline. Imagineer mentioned the lady working on this seen in Inside Pixar, and when I saw that episode I was thoroughly dismayed.

She said that it was shocking to see the movie they were working on primarily consisted of male characters.

The movie was Cars 3, one of Disney’s few male-geared franchises, which brings me to this:

@Spark

The issue still applies, just on a larger scale this means, that this is an issue not just with the game, but with Disney as a whole… and yes @Imagineer_V, I am being a “Disney realist” and calling out my favorite movie studio

Disney has been female-centric since release. Say what you want about Snow White, how the Prince needs to save her… but I bet half of you couldn’t tell me his name. Nobody cared about him. Everyone is interested in Snow White & the Evil Queen. It’s the same with most Disney Princess franchises. Maybe males outnumber females in a Princess film… but who cares? Those films are still targeting a primarily female audience, and cantering a female story.

Take Tangled. Largely male cast (because of the large number of thugs). And yet, they still felt the need to change the title from Rapunzel to Tangled so not to alienate the male audience. Isn’t that funny?

Anyway, back to Cars. She went on to say her discoveries brought on characters like Cruz Ramirez and Louise Nash. And I just thought, wonderful, you’ve added these two new characters - not for what they have to offer the plot, but because they can make your percentages look better.

It’s kind of disgusting.

When Raya comes out, I’m assuming white characters will be ‘underrepresented’ and that’s a thought I haven’t had before coming to this thread… because I don’t care!

I want to see what these characters have to offer. Their skin colour should not be relevant.

My point: we need to get over these superficial factors. It’s becoming a barrier to creativity. Whether a cast is fully male or fully female should not matter - the story should matter. The content of the character should matter.

It’s just kind of sad that the very people fighting for equality are the people reinforcing these stigmas by constantly categorizing people in groups based on superficial factors.

Why can’t we just let people be people?

[Witcheress]

@LilRubyKinz

I’ve been waiting a long while for Anna

@LilRubyKinz

She should be added simply because she is a great and well-loved character. It seems that’s what PB has been striving for, and I commend them for that.

This makes no sense to me. Anna is great and beloved, she wasn’t added and yet this is what PB has been striving for?

People have been requesting Anna for years, she shows up in wish lists all the time and still nothing. So we didn’t get another beloved freeze female character, instead we just got 2 male freeze characters (in one!) with maybe 5min screentime that almost no one knows or asked for. And you commend them for that?

@LilRubyKinz

I just so desperately wish people could see past gender - past the numbers - and just see a person.

They won’t and shouldn’t because research shows that people have a need to see someone they can relate to. And that’s a good thing. This is a quote from NYT article about women in cinema that I like in particular:

"It’s been proven that without roles for others to look up to, many won’t go against the tide; a rule that can be spoken for the same aspects of race and sexuality. Seeing people like us in a position of power, success, wealth helps us to dream, to learn.

Without female superheroes, girls wouldn’t be encouraged to empower themselves or fellow women. They wouldn’t want to become the superheroes of our society: the lawyers, the police women, the fire women, the doctors. When you don’t see people that are like you - struggling, flawed, anti-heroic - it’s difficult to accept who you are, to love yourself for who you are. Female superheroes give girls, boys, and everyone in between the knowledge that you can be whoever or whatever you wish."

[Irrer-Minnie]

I agree with most of your statement but: Who says a boy cannot relate to a female character? They definitely can. The evidence just typed this post.

[LilRubyKinz]

@Witcheress

This makes no sense to me. Anna is great and beloved, she wasn’t added and yet this is what PB has been striving for?

I’d rather a unique and tailored skillset than a character pumped out to boost their female numbers, yes.

@Witcheress

So we didn’t get another beloved freeze female character, instead we just got 2 male freeze characters (in one!) with maybe 5min screentime that almost no one knows or asked for. And you commend them for that?

If a character is not well-loved by someone, they would not be in the game. I guarantee you there’s a Powerline fan working at the studio Just because your tastes are popular doesn’t make them the most important to prioritize adding to the game.

Kristoff doesn’t get enough appreciation. I do indeed commend them for adding him! He’s a great character.

And nobody knows him… please. We’re talking Frozen here.

@Witcheress

They won’t and shouldn’t because research shows that people have a need to see someone they can relate to.

Certainly. I just think relating to someone is deeper than relating to the way they look.

But to say you can only look up to a strong person of the same gender is so superficial.

Everyone is different. You might not agree, but I think Cinderella is a great role model, and not just for females.

@Witcheress

Seeing people like us in a position of power, success, wealth helps us to dream, to learn.

I think that as a game that depends on pre-existing IPs, that’s not PB’s job.

But even still - there’s no shortage of female heroines in the game, even if the numbers aren’t exactly equal.

[Tilarta]

I’m definitely wanting Anna, it just doesn’t feel right to have Elsa and not her little sister.
But I think she’d be more of a brawler, Anna’s fight technique was hit hard and dodge fast, in spite of her clumsiness, she’s actually a skilled dancer.
Also, keep in mind Anna has no powers, which was the whole point of the movie franchise, she kept Elsa grounded because she was just a normal girl.

It wasn’t just her grandmother that gave Moana permission to go, once Siana realized what Moana was planning, she helped her leave instead of forcing her to stay.
Honestly, it was the best choice all things considered, if her father had gotten his way and she stayed, the island would have been destroyed, because only returning the heart could save it.

Into the Spiderverse covered that exact theme, the tagline was “anyone can wear the mask”. Two of those anyone were Ghost Spider (Gwen Stacy) and SP//DR (Peni Parker).

And yes, the mistake is often made that boys only like male role models, that they won’t accept a female role model or a franchise catering to females.
Lego Friends being one example, they designed it originally for girls, but once they realized it could also appeal to boys, they changed their marketing approach.

[Commander-Rex]

@Tilarta

Into the Spiderverse covered that exact theme, the tagline was “anyone can wear the mask”. Two of those anyone were Ghost Spider (Gwen Stacy and SP//DR (Peni Parker).

That has always been the strength of Spider-Man as a character. Kevin Smith described it best. Literally anyone can be Spider-Man. Yes, Peter Parker is a white kid from Queens, but you yourself can be in his shoes, no matter who you are. Miles, Gwen, Peni, Noir, even Spider-Ham, lol. And he is not the only Disney character that has that type of versatility.

You do not have to be like a character to relate to them, you relate to them because you face the same struggles as they do. We relate to Woody, not because he’s a toy, but because he has troubles with jealousy, feelings of unworthiness, etc. I really feel we should change the subject of this to more of what we can do in the forums now though since it’s becoming a rather drawn out debate than what it should have been.

[Imagineer_V]

@LilRubyKinz

But even still - there’s no shortage of female heroines in the game, even if the numbers aren’t exactly equal.

Part of my thing is that we should have more female characters. The world is not perfect and I completely agree with your points Ruby. I have many stories and things that can prove that yes storytelling is more important. Target audience is as well.

The issue I have with the current conversation is that we are not shifting it towards the real issue and instead having arguments about it.

@Tilarta

And yes, the mistake is often made that boys only like male role models, that they won’t accept a female role model or a franchise catering to females.
Lego Friends being one example, they designed it originally for girls, but once they realized it could also appeal to boys, they changed their marketing approach.

THIS

[Turned_To_Sin]

@Witcheress

They won’t and shouldn’t because research shows that people have a need to see someone they can relate to. And that’s a good thing.

I totally agree with…a part of that statement. Indeed, a character to relate to is an essential part of a movie, even if it won’t inspire you, it will just make you enjoy the movie much more.

But…does it have to be about character looks rather than their minds? Two Disney/Pixar characters that I personally relate to the most are Jack Scellington and Joy. They have much in common in the way they behave. Jack is so obsessed with an idea to bring something new to his life that he tries to involve as many people as he can for everyone to have the same feeling, which sometimes leads to ignoring their actual interests and making things worse. Same with Joy, she tries to cheer up everyone around herself, not just Riley, which also leads to her ignoring feelings of others. Those two have nothing common in looks, but they share the same problems.

[LilRubyKinz]

@Imagineer_V

The issue I have with the current conversation is that we are not shifting it towards the real issue and instead having arguments about it.

I think it’s generated discussion certainly, not sure about arguments.

If not about female representation, what is the real issue you want to discuss?

[Imagineer_V]

@Imagineer_V

The issue I have with the current conversation is that we are not shifting it towards the real issue and instead having arguments about it.

By the way if someone wants me to explain why this is the case I would be happy to.

[LilRubyKinz]

Enlighten us!

[Imagineer_V]

@LilRubyKinz

If not about female representation, what is the real issue you want to discuss?

While female representation is important, I am not denying anything that has been said by many of you. It is not something that we can really solve, so why are we having a debate about it?

When I wrote this thread I wrote it with the intention that myself and other forumers who are affected could speak their minds without being denied. When someone who really is not affected by an issue speaks on a problem and implies ‘it is not a problem’ it makes it worse for those who are.

My expectation from others who are not female (so most of you) was that you would recognize the issue and not try to start a debate full of statements that can be hurtful, which unfortunately happened to an extent. In a way I feel slightly attacked for speaking my mind on something and that is NEVER ok. Lucas put it wonderfully.

@Lucas1999

I do agree PB could try to do more effort.

@Lucas1999

it is even more important to talk about inclusivity in the game and on the forums, amongst each other.

I too have seen creepy stuff on global (not towards me, but still) and maybe we (including me) should do more on the side of reporting unacceptable behaviour

That is not to say I do not agree with some things those of you have said. I believe if a solution on representation is to happen, there needs to be a combination of what you all have said and what I have said. I just tried to focus on the ‘look’ rather than the factors you brought up. I do theater and I want to be a Disney Imagineer. Both of these require knowing how to tell a story. I have so many stories to share of this, and I am sure others do too. THAT would actually be a fun thread… Anyway, I now respectfully request that we move forward in the conversation towards talking about the stuff I have under here:

@Imagineer_V

My Experience with this Problem

[LilRubyKinz]

@Imagineer_V

My expectation from others who are not female (so most of you) was that you would recognize the issue and not try to start a debate full of statements that can be hurtful, which unfortunately happened to an extent.

Could you point out where something hurtful was said?

Discussion is the first step to solving any issue. All opinions should be considered, and basically in this quote you are saying you expected us not to have different opinions, or at least not to share them.

@Imagineer_V

When someone who really is not affected by an issue speaks on a problem

Everyone is affected by the problem. Problems like this shape our media and our society.

And I really don’t think anyone said it’s ‘not a problem’. Personally, I am saying people are going about the problem in the wrong way.

Anyhow, if the purpose was not to discuss and just to agree, then I apologize and will stay silent.