Some observations on Frozone and a possible fix

Can we just all take a moment and agree that Frozone is incredibly bad. He is the worst Control hero in the game bar none, possibly the worst hero in the game… Especially with Syndrome added to the Incredibles roster there is zero point to use him.

On top of this Hero 100, Kristoff and Sven, invalidates his existence even further. Kristoff’s blue skill is better than Frozone’s entire kit. The ice block freezes for 10 seconds knocks enemies back and deals damage over time. The freeze is also level independant meaning that it is only reduced by Tenacity. Combined with the fact that both of Frozone’s disks do not benefit him whatsoever. I know there was a poll recently for the next hero refresh and the vote (last I checked) was pretty clear for Buzz/Genie to get the refresh. Both of those heroes are in definite need of it but at least Buzz and Genie have some decent things in their kits.

Genie has a stun, invincibility, energy generation and healing and Buzz has a stun knockback and some decent dps with his purple skill. Frozone only has 2 freezes both of which are level dependent to freeze for 4/1 or 8/2 seconds, a pathetically weak ice wave and a garbage dot on frozen enemies.

So how does one go about fixing an obviously dated hero in a day and age where one skill invalidates an entire character? Obviously a refresh works but it needs to be impactful while still keeping the character’s identity. Below is my idea behind a refresh for him.

White:
This skill isn’t entirely bad as a straight up team freeze but it should be bolstered with at least double the duration so it probably should be in the range of 8-12 seconds. On top of this it could also get a passive where Frozone drains 10 energy a second per hero whenever a hero is frozen from any source. This allows him to keep up the freezing so his team disposes of the neutralized targets.

Green:
So straight up this skill is boring, which is fine for when Frozone was made but just feels very lackluster 100 heroes in. I would replace this with an entrance attack much like Baymax, Gonzo etc. Where Frozone skates along an icy path he forms through the team that damages and freezes the team for 6 seconds on top of a 25% movement speed slow for 15 seconds before the icy path melts.

Blue:
Again this skill isn’t bad conceptually but it is just far too weak to be viable. A strong single target freeze for let’s say 16 seconds would be a very good lockdown tool. I would have this skill prioritize either the front most target or the enemy with the highest Max HP.

Purple:
Much like his Green skill this is a fairly uninspired skil with a DoT and could be replaced with a more unique skill that fit’s his character better from a role perspective.

For this we could have it where instead of dealing damage enemies become Sapped after being frozen. 1 second for each second they have been frozen.

Red:
Obviously a Red skill will come to Frozone regardless of a refresh at some point but what would that look like?

I think when Frozone gets a Red skill it should buff the following: Skill Power, Armor and HP. This would allow for him to have better staying power and really keep him alive so he could disable enemies more and more. On top of this when an enemy is Sapped the other 50% energy generation should be feed into him as another form of energy drain.

This turns Frozone from a pathetically outdated and outmatched hero into one that has a role that still falls in line with his original concept.

Now that the kit is out of the way let’s move on to the friendship disks.

His disk with Mr. I is a just overall bad conceptually. A disk that gives all Tanks Armor and Damage sounds nice in theory but it is really underwhelming when you consider the fact that in order to make the most of this you need to have multiple tanks if you really want to get your money’s worth and that it does absolutely nothing for Frozone himself. So how does one change this? Well as we will see in a minute EVE’s disk is the more defensive one so this one needs to be offensive.

So it should give Skill Power and have frozen enemies Armor and Reality reduced by 5/10/15/20/25%.

EVE’s disk is by far the better of the two although that’s not exactly saying much. Freezing your allies for 2 seconds while not being the worst thing in the world can still be the reason you win or lose. I enjoy the healing this disk provides but it shouldn’t be at the cost of disabling your own team. The whole 20 Reality Negation is also nice but it’s not the best thing he can have.

How I would change this disk is by having it heal for X amount of HP a second per enemy frozen and have it give 4/8/12/16/20% Conservation.

Frozone wasn’t built to be a damage hero or a tank and while EVE’s disk helps him fill a support role, Frozone is a Control hero and that’s what I believe this refresh concept would do.

So let me know what you guys think. Do you think this is good, bad, makes no sense or are you one of the few people who thinks Frozone is good? Thanks for reading and I hope this can get some conversations started about other heroes who are in desperate need of a refresh.

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This doesn’t even require such long paragraphs, it’s well known issue, this game doesn’t have any balance between old and new characters, just a PB’s way to force people to spend as much as possible money while keep saying this game isn’t designed to have all heroes maxed * cough * friendships *cough * invasion, CW and… whole game.

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I don’t disagree but I wished to make a post explaining my thoughts on the hero and how PB could go about fixing him.

There is massive incentives to collect and raise all the heroes regardless of it’s purely a personal goal or because most of the game requires it. On top of that I decided to pick Frozone as he is so weak but also because I could see a freeze meta coming around thanks to the introduction of Kristoff and Sven. While Olaf and Elsa are obvious choices in such a team the next major freeze heroes are Frozone and then possibly Wall-E. Sure you have heroes who get Freeze from disks like Felix, Baymax and Genie it would undoubtedly be an easier fit for Frozone assuming he was brought up to speed.

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Only bad part would be trying to replace His green skill with a one time entrance ability.

Well said. In my personal opinion the games biggest problem is not allowing that much freedom for your roster choices. Because of how bad the old characters are and because of how overly powerful the new characters are you don’t have that much of a choice in what your roster is. Yeah we have 100 heroes, but how many are actually viable?

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Would you mind explaining why and entrance attack is bad? There are at least 5 other heroes I can name off the top of my head that have such a mechanic. An entrance attack guarantees damage and with this also freezing it provides essentially a free damage and disable at the start of a wave/battle.

Such mechanics are strong because not only does it give you an edge at the start of a fight it comes at literally no cost to the player. Sure you can have another ability that has a cooldown but you risk having said ability interrupted with a stagger or other forms of disables. On top of all this, because of it’s nature as a one time use you can make it stronger than even the example I gave above.

Other abilities have to be balanced around the ideas of cooldown and risk and reward. Entrance attacks are infinitely valuable because of this inherent lack of risk.

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It is self explanatory, it is only used during the entrance. This same thing holds even Baymax back & the other heroes who have entrance attacks back.

I don’t think it’s a hindrance to any character that has such an ability. It allows you to get more damage out quicker and said damage or shields in the case of Baymax can help you take out a priority target fast or protect your own heroes.

Aladdin for instance makes a great backline assassin with him riding Carpet during his entrance.

Hank and Dory get off a great blind before the battle starts allowing the ability to have any front line tanks or damage such as Beast or Mr. I from getting energy for their skills. The same applies to Powerline’s delayed entrance.

Bogo and Launchpad can also be seen as good thanks to their ability to stun immediately at the start of battle. Moreso Launchpad thanks to his being an aoe and also reducing armor.

Quorra and Gonzo are probably the worst examples of an entrance attack as they only do damage, but even then that is good because it means faster energy generation for them allowing Gonzo to get his Chicken Run stun off and Quorra to do her disk throw, which while isn’t nearly as broken as I’ve heard or read it being, is still a decent skill to get off faster.

When you take into consideration what these abilities do, regardless of their lack of repeatability are all good skills not only in their own kits but also fit the character’s thematically and honor the source material.

It is a hindrance, having an entrance skill is one reason why Baymax isn’t so good compared to other tanks is because it sucks & is used once.

Having entrance skills doesn’t mean heroes who have them are bad. Taking Baymax as an example: his shield isn’t THAT strong, but it can definitely be useful. If Baymax has his Olaf disk equipped, that skill is actually great. 2,5 seconds of freeze aren’t much, but at the start, they can give your heroes just the time to perform their skills before enemies, which is a huge advantage. Pretty much all of these kind of skills help your heroes, by giving them starting buffs (for example Timon & Pumbaa), delaying enemies’ actions (The likes of Bogo and Launchpad, or even Yax), or just by dealing immediate damage (Quorra, Gonzo, Aladdin).

Don’t forget the lately added cosmetics nobody needs and you even have to pay for mainly duplicates dropping out of those crates :rofl:

Everything has to be maxed and collected in the long run to keep up, polaris‘s sentence is outdated to long long times where Quorra was chopping rampage…

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What I can say?

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I believe we will agree to disagree on this one my friend. According to a tier list on reddit made by @Emitz for 1.16 which was the most recent patch before the latest one introducing Syndrome and K&S every character that is listed that has an entrance ability outside of Bogo and Quorra is B tier or higher. The only one I used as an example that isn’t listed is Hank and Dory which I’m almost guaranteeing is A tier or higher. On top of this Baymax just got his Red skill which means his entrance attack is even better thanks to his shields increasing his armor and adding a stack of Hardy.

Entrance abilities may seem like a liability due to it’s one time use but I would strongly disagree with the notion that entrance abilities are the sole reason a hero isn’t ranked higher or not as highly contested. Personally I think Quorra and Bogo aren’t higher thanks to a lack of a Red skill on top of being outclassed by other heroes in their respective roles which makes it an issue with their entire kit or poor stats and scaling. Not because of one ability.

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You can critique subreddits without the use of derogatory name calling. Also I am willing to trust this source as they are a top player who has maxed out almost all the heroes so I think they would have a respectable opinion on who is and isn’t worth using.

You are fine in disagreeing with the sentiments I have put forth but please do so with at least some sense of tact. You have only diminished a skills value without giving due reasoning behind calling something good or bad. You have a wonderful day good sir and best of luck in the game.

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I still think Ursula is the worst control in the game with really no moves.

Ey, the truth hurts & it doesn’t care about opinions as the truth is made up of facts which override opinions any subject unless they it is only down to personal preference.

Ursula is way better than Frozone who is a control hero so no, She isn’t the worst.

That’s a really bad argument. You’re arguing against these long paragraphs of proofs laid out for you with statements like “Reddit is full of people who are not the brightest” (though I redacted the derogatory term, obviously).

Who’s the one arguing opinions?

@Rothan_Edentide, you’ve got me convinced. There’s no reason why an entrance skill can’t be a good skill.

Aladdin is a character who I use very often. If he didn’t have his entrance skill, I guarantee you I wouldn’t still be using him.

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I am thankful that there is at least some good coming from this discussion. I have no problem with differing viewpoints so long as they are explained outside of the “I’m right, you’re wrong” mentality.

Aladdin is a great example of how a hero really needs to hit purple before they become an actual hero and how an entrance ability can accentuate a hero’s kit. Before purple Aladdin is a mediocre frontline damage hero who has some decent damage but nothing spectacular. After purple however, he becomes this great diving assassin who can really pick off low armor targets by getting behind the tanks and doing some serious damage. Combine that with his disk from Genie and Aladdin can run rampant to either take out a priority target or buy enough time for the rest of your team to follow up.

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Text isn’t proof, footage that confirms something is proof.

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