Hero Refresh for Finnick and Yax (the two weaknest heroes in game)

#1

Finnick - useless and weaknest hero after Yax
image
Base Stats

  • +40% Max HP
  • +30% Basic Damage
  • +50% Skill Power
  • Attack range changed from Mid to Back

Remote controller

  • +30% damage
  • Van cause stun on all enemies for 4 seconds

Pummel pop

  • +50% damage
  • Increased range of attack by 20% (bigger AOE)
  • Finnick gains 10% attack speed every time he used this skill. Can stacks only 3 times.

Jumbo slam

  • Range of skill will now be for the whole battlefield, allowing to damage all enemies

Sticky situation

  • Amount of reduced movement speed and speed attack increase to 50% (from 30%)
  • Add: Finnick gains 20% of damage dealt back as healing

Disks

From Nick

  • Increase by 6x effect of memory disk level status
  • Disk starts with +200 starting energy (and gains 200 per disk star)
  • Disk starts with +10% conservation (and gains +10% per disk star)

From Judy

  • Triple amount of skill power effect of memory disk level
  • Disk starts with 50 energy removing (and gains 25 per disk star)
  • Each attack now removes energy (before an only basic attack)

Yax - worst hero, needs some drastic changes
image

  • +50% Max HP
  • +50% Basic Damage
  • +50% Skill Power

Natural healing

  • +50% amount of healing
  • Additionally heals allies by 10% of max. HP
  • Each time Yax heals, he removes all negative effects from allies

Flower power

  • +60% damage
  • Each time Yax uses this skill all allies receive 100 energy

Body odor

  • +30% damage

Chill vibes

  • Amount of reduced speed attack increase to 20% (from 10%)
  • Yax is untargetable for first 5 seconds of battle
  • Yax grants allies 50 energy at the start of battle

Disks

From Finnick

  • Triple amount of skill power effect of memory disk level
  • Disk starts now with 3s of longer ‘Chill Vibes’ (each star increase duration by 3s)
  • Add: Increase amount of improved healing by 10% (each star +10%)

From Frozone

  • Double amount of basic damage gain effect of memory disk level
  • Disk starts now with +10% conservation (each star increase amount of conservation by +10%)

Please check it @Polaris and use this during creating next hero refresh.

4 Likes
#2

Whilst some could be tweaked, I definitely like the idea of Yax being another status cleanser - currently Kevin Flynn is just not enough - especially in War.

1 Like
#3

While I agree these two need a hero refresh the most, these seem incredibly overpowered. Having stuns, untargetable status, increased energy generation, and multiplying certain stats by 1.5 times the initial value all seems incredibly absurd and communicates an idea of “These heroes are way underpowered, so let’s make them way overpowered.” Which is not good balancing in any way, shape or form.

6 Likes
#4

This is exactly what these charas need - an overpowered enhancement. Why ? Here is the reason:
Why do we keep Yax at maximum level ? For the Tia - Yax Disk
Why do we keep Vanelope at Max. lvl. ? For the Shank - Vanelope Disk
And the list goes on and on…im fed up to keep characters I never would think about twice in my life up at their maximum level so I can maximimise their disks AND with the new increase in XP costs - Well we all get the point where this leads to…

So we either need a MASSIVE improvement of these outcasts (Yax, Finnick, Jessie) or a way to reset these for a REIMBURSE of our time, Gold and effort.

Sorry for the harsh words but this is a pretty sensitive issue :hugs:

2 Likes
#5

I object to having Jessie placed in the reject category. I use her alot as a assassin of sorts. If she triggers her white skill, she call heal for almost all of her HP and possible trigger it again. Buzz disk makes triggering white skill easier.

1 Like
#6

I’m not denying that those heroes need a massive upgrade, however there is a line between improving a hero and making the better at their job, and completely breaking them open and making them lose their character and making them insanely overpowered.

Like Yax, is there a reason for his cloud to stun? Not really. I would much rather have him go the poison route and give him some synergy with Sally. Should his flower power give energy to everyone? Again no that’s not the point of it. Make it instead debuff the hit enemy so it takes increased damage from DoTs.

Now to Finnick, is there any reason for the Van to stun? Once again nope. You can’t just slap some hard CC and expect it to be balanced. Have it instead hit harder the closer the enemy and have a slow that decreases in intensity after each enemy is hit. Like the first has a 50% slow, second has 40%, so on and so forth. Is there any reason for Finnick to have more lifesteal than Scar? Once again no. Instead have his slows increase in duration versus enemies below 50%.

The hero refreshes are supposed to take a look at a hero’s role, and expound upon them. Giving them new tool to keep on par with the newest heroes. The proposed changes here only exist to make a hero overpowered without any sort of intent of keeping their initial role. Yax is suppose to be a master healer and having him also have a strong DoT to sap away enemies health would fit his character and keep him as a very strong support. Finnick is the slow bot. Having slows on top of slows on top of slows. We can see how strong that can be if given enough love with the newly released Mad Hatter. It’s all about balance in gameplay and balance in character accuracy of which these changes fail in both aspects.

2 Likes
#7

I agree bro, this hero many even say he is SUCK and WORST. But why if he in creeps, he is OP.

This my Finnick.

BTW This image I screenshot since me in TL 76 and your game chat topic like me, but you add yax for in your topic. :yum:

Reference: Finnick need buff?

#8

Just wrong. You don’t need yax anywhere near max for that disc. And van is actually really good with the Merida disc. Use her in challenger arena and coliseum all the time. Stop crying

Not sure why I got flagged for telling the truth

1 Like
#9

90% of those changes don’t make any sense.

#10

Ok… fine. Removed. Might be too much for the support.

Flower ‘POWER’, giving energy, once per 10 seconds and still less than Wall-E.
He’s support hero, should do something more than small heal, which can be even worst with curse.
However, decreased to 100 from 200.

Oh… so where’s the point of this? Also creating a new debuff make it even less realistic.

Bringing own ‘food’ (silly), but maybe 40% is too much, decreased to 20%.
Jessie have 45% and also dodge, it makes her good hero? Nope! Lacks of reality makes own work, a weak hero.

Yes, yes, of course, a big van drives via enemies and do nothing than small tickle (damage).
Should stun, he’s control and slows is way not enough in today era.
Stayed.

Who needs Yax which have really weak heal, while Sulley/Mickey/Miguel (or any healer) does this much better? Strong DoT? Say hello to Barbossa, Sally or Jack Ske.
A lot of things changed, no idea if you still below TL60 or live in 2018, still during beta where was 15 heroes.

Over one year all roles changed, single heal won’t make the hero support, also today damage heroes have some control abilities.
Yax and Finnick are at very bottom position and need big changes, there will be new heroes in the future even better than actual meta heroes. Small changes won’t be enough.
These two only need to be upgraded for some friendships, nothing more.

That’s just for 5 seconds, not 12 like Scar. + it’s only once per battle.
Stayed. It will be helpful to die not too quick, it’s too late to change badges to improve his defense.

Disk stayed, new heroes can have 5k skill power/basic damage bonus from disk while old ones hardly hit 1000.
To Finnick’s speed bonus from green skill I added cap of 3 stacks.

#11

First and foremost, while I did not play in the beta, I have played since the official launch and am lvl 105 hovering about mid 80s for top players on my Server.

Still don’t agree with the energy generation. Wall-E makes sense with his solar panels charging his allies with them. If you are going based solely on the name and not on the actual skill then that is a very short sighted approach to proposing balance changes, in my opinion.

I answered this with my thoughts on his cloud.

Yax has quite the stench as indicated with the flies that swarm around him. Having that be poisonous and allowing his “Flower Power” which currently is just a basic projectile that does damage, the ability to give a unique debuff would give him a niche as both a strong healer and also allowing him to set up allies to be more potent with Damage over Time abilities. It gives him a more solidified role as a support.

Now onto Finnick once more.

I don’t ever recall Finnick eating any of his jumbo pop. He and Nick melt it down to the Pawpsicles to sell to the gerbils/hamsters. Lifesteal just makes no sense in his kit.

I never said it made sense for Jessie, nor that she is a good hero. It doesn’t make sense for her to have it either but this discussion is not about Jessie, it’s about Finnick. In no way does Finnick having lifesteal make a lick of sense.

His Van also does knockback alongside from damage. Combining that with slows is a great combination as it prevents the enemy front liners to get to you and slows their progress to get into range. Also with attack speed being tied to ability speed makes it incredibly detrimental to heroes who want to get that skill off fast. Such as Quorra, Moana, DWD, etc.

Yax is still the quintessential healer, he falls short due to his offensive capabilities. Miguel has to stack notes on heroes before he can heal for burst and the regen isn’t the greatest. Mickey has a massive single target heal and percentage HP regen, which while it’s good for Tanks makes it less so on low HP heroes. 3% of ~50k HP a second is roughly 1500 a second. Not fantastic. Sulley while he does have a massive heal, he can only typically get it off once or twice and at lower stars it’s only a percentage of that heal. Sulley also has no improved healing meaning that it doesn’t get multiplied like other healers.

Yax at O3 Max Enhance has 160% improved healing. Meaning his healing is multiplied by over 2 and a half times. I’ve faced some high power Yax and they make a team have incredible staying power than one might think. One must remember that curse was made in order to counter Yax because he was healing that much. Lastly he heals everyone at the same time. So he has good potential as is.

In regards to the proposed untargetable duration.

There is a big difference between being untargetable and being invisible. Untargetable means nothing can hit you and is essentially the same thing as an invincibility. Invisibility means that the hero in question can’t be hit directly, but any AoE or team wide abilities will still hit.

Also Yax has more defenses than you would think. O3 Max Enhance he has 51k HP, 14k armor and 13k reality.

All in all I will reiterate. I agree that Yax and Finnick are the worst in their fields and need changes, but not in sacrifice of their abilities and roles. These changes make zero sense in the keeping these characters true to their source material and are horribly imbalanced. Their friendship disks do need some love as well but that is a given. I don’t know if I agree with the numbers you suggest as I don’t have the data for those to compare. I don’t dislike the idea of them being refreshed, but I very much dislike the ideas of HOW to change them.

2 Likes
#12

Finnick can be good I personal hate him but he can be

#13

You need to max. out the corresponding other character’s level in order to get the maximum friendship level.
So we have a double drain of xp Drinks:
Needless raise of levels of characters we do not like or use or both AND the latest mindblowing idea of how to rightfully enrage the player’s community by raising xp costs beyond level 86 I remember. Clapp clapp clapp :clap:
Pls tell me if I am wrong :yum:

1 Like
#14

Flynn your using him wrong dont tell me your using shield disk

1 Like
#15

Congrats @Wild_Eule. :clap: :clap: :clap: wrong again buddy. Please stop making up stuff to complain about. It’s easy to fact check. For example, and I will use a newer friendship. My shank/elastic girl was very beatable without putting any additional work into elastic since I stopped using her a while back. If you take things off auto and play, it is actually pretty doable. Also, I have plenty of friendships with 100% completion even though she is pretty weak. See below. Love ya

1 Like
#16

I hate to burst your bubble but @Wild_Eule does have A point. Perhaps not the one they were aiming for but a point nevertheless. While you were able to complete Shank/Elastigirl without maxing Elastigirl, in order to get that disk to max level you will need to raise Elastigirl’s level.

See the way disk level cap works is the level of the hero who gives the disk, in this case, Elastigirl minus 40. So if Elastigirl is lvl 102 like seen here you can only raise that disk to LVL 62 before needing to raise Elastigirl’s level. Now granted max level for disks is LVL 70 if your server cap is TL 110 so 8 levels isn’t a major loss in the grand scheme of things.

Tl;dr @Wild_Eule is right in the sense you need to raise sub optimal heroes levels for friendship disks, not necessarily to obtain the disk, but in order to maintain it.

1 Like
#18

Thanks for offtop…

  • Removed attack increase from ‘Jumbo slam’

Once, once again.
These heroes are really poor, knocked back by newer, better heroes AND need a huge boost.

Who hurts Finnick? (for his role)
Alice
Mad Hatter
Olaf
Hiro
Barbossa

Who hurts Yax?
Well, everyone, but looking at his ROLE, healer role.
Each healer after update 0.4, including Sulley.

#19

Thank you for your neutral view on this issue.

In the beginning I LOVED Yax, his role in “Zootopia” was hilarious :joy:

His healing effect was substantial at lower levels.
Now he is just collecting dust…:confused:

In the past it was no problem for leveling him up - but things have changed with the heigthtened increase in XP cost.

So we either need a MASSIVE improvement of these obsolete characters, a game mechanic to compensate for the additional drain or sth else.

Im open for all ideas !!!
Whats your opinion :sweat_smile:

#20

I wanted to express my view on why and how obsolete characters need an improvement and IN ADDITION to that I wanted to show why the current system is in need of improvement.
Maybe I diverted a little bit bit it shows an aspect

#21

Yax hasn’t done really amazing things compared to other Disney characters. He’s naked, for Pete’s sake, and I’m not talking about the fat cat from Mickey Mouse. He only appeared once in Zootopia, iirc.

1 Like