Invasion Rewards and Mods

[Farmer_Boo_IV]

It just seems unfair on the F2P players since they’re not able to keep up as it is.

Also aside from F2P players, even I’m not able to keep up. I feel far behind in many ways while playing and I have spent money on the game. This should be a sign that the game is moving too quickly for many, I wouldn’t dare to imagine being F2P. I definitely would have already left by now if I were which is disheartening for me to say since every player in these updates should be catered for.

So many people have left each server whether they be powerful or not very powerful and it’s saddening to see people go due to the pace of the game being so quick. Admittedly I can see why the game is so fast pace, there are players who do max out their heroes within a few days of the update. This is why rewards from invasion shouldn’t be cut completely, the rewards were a benefit to players making it seem like we weren’t falling that far behind.

[Kira]

I suppose waiting the Invasion reward change until after the anniversary as in waiting until June would have been better, and yeah it saddens me a lot as well as it went this way in terms of the community and so close to the anniversary :-(.

I can understand if the previous rewards was a bit too game breaking for the economy and understand if they need to be lowered, but I do think lowering the rewards to like 200/250 EXP bottles for the reward that was 700 EXP bottles or so would be a good balance or at least at 150 EXP bottles.

Technically this is another thing entirely, but something shouldn’t be game breaking and still fun for us players. An idea I think is to lower the requirement to unlock friendship for new characters would be good as there are less and less high level players around max level, as in servers like server 5. The idea is just that the story content is unlocked earlier and can more easily be enjoyed, but the actual disks unlocked later.

Let’s say you need level 60-75 to unlock story content and 75-85 to unlock the disks, which in my view is s good balance maybe if not a little higher. It should at least allow newer players more easily to enjoy the story content and older players actually feel like they can afford to invest in the characters and get to experience their stories :-). A little something I came to think of as that should help the game stay healthier without changing the economy or power balance if done right.

But yeah, I understand if you at Perblue felt for balancing the game economy a bit, and yeah looking forward to the Anniversary update and hope we get to see a lot of interesting new characters and content :-).

[Ash_s2]

Polaris correct me if I’m wrong, but when you talk about limiting resources being gained it comes off as “we’re not getting enough money”. I get that and if that’s what you mean, that’s perfectly understandable.

I spend a lot of money on this game. This week I stopped. Artificially driving demand by taking away resources will burn your player base and have them looking at other games. We feel taken advantage of when this is how you monetize.

Right now I’m slowing my spending because at the rate the game is going I won’t have anyone to play with this time next year. It’s too expensive. And it only keeps getting more expensive to keep up.

Happy to have a positive, realistic conversation man. But it’s very frustrating as a player when you keep pushing free players out of the game.

[Dread_Pirate_Doc]

@Polaris
Can you site how the balance has been tipping to too many resources created? Given the complaints of cost of things, I don’t understand how this tracks.

I appreciate this nugget, but more information would make things more understandable.

Your mention of more contests is interesting. There has been a large number of complaints about how much more difficult the contests have become. The points per diamond, stamina spent, badge acquired, etc. have all dropped. How does this track?

I’d be very interested in the math involved and the logic.

Thanks.

[Faerilyth]

No. Just no. Your response and ‘reasoning’ are complete and utter bull and you know it. You guys added something amazing to the game, invasion. That said, the amazing part was the rewards. Which you guys killed. Just killed. Consider how much xp is needed to level high level heroes, 1000 XP drinks was a drop in the bucket. I was finally feeling like I could do something in this game besides always being behind. You guys took the hope and enjoyment from this game.

As well, we don’t need level cap increases so often. Focus on other aspects to make the game fun. More end game stuff would be a blast.

[RT98]

Balancing the game economy - resources that are created vs resources that are destroyed (spent) - is very complicated and something that’s always in flux. That balance recently has been tipping toward too many resources created. Since the beginning of the month, we’ve been running a lot more bonus events . Remember, players asked for more events, and we listened. Contests, new heroes, and new content do drain out some of those resources, but when that doesn’t work, we have to look at the creation of resources and consider how to slow it down.

Thanks for the update @Polaris.

It’s interesting that this “create vs spend” rate of resources is such a concern for you and the team. For myself, with the number of bits needed to craft top level badges, I now hold on to as many resources as possible. I very rarely use stamina batteries unless I have a double drop running (either from an item or even). I hold on to as many resources as possible so I can get the most benefit from them.

This usually means waiting for the level cap/rank increase and then using a 2X normal campaign drop rate item. Then, since I will be running many raids, I use all of the other 2X items and get as many badges, gold, XP, and team XP as I can with my saved resources. (isn’t this what everybody else is doing?)

When I’ve got enough heroes maxed stay somewhat competitive, I stop spending and start saving for the next update. With the last update, I stopped using resources early because I wasn’t sure if there would be options to acquire as many resources before the next update.

I’m not really trying to complain, I guess I’m just saying that it seems like we’re stuck in an odd feedback loop: The more in game resources it takes to advance heroes, the more we save. The more we save, the more you increase the amount of resources it takes to advance heroes.

[kuddukan]

Actually the Invasion gameplay itself I find to be very good. It allows in different weeks for characters to be utilized that you don’t normally get to play with.

However with this change in rewards the whole experience has been ruined.

[Winterbotton]

It allows in different weeks for characters to be utilized that you don’t normally get to play with.

But now we are stuck with the same formation over a over again each week because that’s the one we can afford to keep upgraded.

[kuddukan]

Yes this is true. Which discourages overall time spent in the game.

[Winterbotton]

I do hope that this won’t rain on the anniversary parade, because the team has been putting in a lot of effort to make the anniversary something special for the players who have been with us from the beginning, and new players who are just joining us.

Frankly the company give us a LOT of talk this month, contest increases (score system), bad diamond deals, bugs issues, too hard and frecuent max level and rarity increases and the cherry on the top. This incident… that brings back the 6 star and the increase gold and xp cost back to our memories.

You didn’t want a rain in the anniversary, but looks like you bring the entire hurricane here.

[Polaris]

Polaris correct me if I’m wrong, but when you talk about limiting resources being gained it comes off as “we’re not getting enough money”. I get that and if that’s what you mean, that’s perfectly understandable.

That isn’t what I mean. This isn’t about getting more money, it’s about making sure the game is sustainable and fun for the long term. When we consider making changes, we look at data, we consider all the different groups that play, including the free to play players. They are a very large group that we want to keep happy.

@Dread_Pirate_Doc I’d love to share all the charts and numbers and give you the formula for the secret sauce, but I can’t. I hope that you can believe me when I say I’ve seen the graphs and the charts and the methodology. We have people with advanced degrees in mathematics and statistics who work on these systems.

@RT98 Loads of people do that (I do that!). We do take that into consideration when we look at the economy.

I hope that the conversation will continue (in a civil way ). I’ll catch up in the morning!

[kuddukan]

@Polaris

There is a human element not seen on your graphs that is on display in these threads.

[Ash_s2]

I appreciate the replies Polaris, I know it would be easier to ignore everyone. It’s helpful to at least get some indication what’s going on.

But speaking for myself I’ve not heard anything to make me feel better about spending money again; in fact it worries me that there’s a feedback loop where spending money tells PerBlue I have too many resources, which in turn indicates they need to lower the rewards.

I also worry these people with degrees have a lot of misleading data they’re using to justify continuing to squeeze players.

There’s not much more to say I guess. Players think they’re being asked for too much, but smart people with degrees think we’re wrong.

[Farmer_Boo_IV]

Players think they’re being asked for too much, but smart people with degrees think we’re wrong.

I’ve never heard something so true. It’s worrying to me that the advice of players (even though we’ve been encouraged to share thoughts) will not really make much of a difference and that says so much about the direction of DHBM.

[Brother_Wolf_God]

Here the sad thing when have we been heard honestly they like it when we say yeah great job or good stuff coming but when we disagree like with the stars the xp the gold anything really they tune us out and expect us to shut up be happy and give them more money and just lap up scrapes

[Knight_Joy_III]

@Polaris real talk. If the economy is going downhill in the game as you say. What statistics is your team basing this off of? I made a previous post actually agreeing with your teams decision of increasing gold cost and exp cost because i began realizing how much you guys were in turn rewarding us in invasion (which requires work to obtain and thus rewarding to those who decide to put in the time) I felt the gold and exp increases balanced out before the nurf. The stamina packs also helped alleviate some of the stress of the continual team level increases and badge requirement increases.
I retract my previous statement after this nurf because now I am faced with the same old dilemma as before. The dilemma is that I can have fun with new combinations of heroes and fall behind, or I can continually keep maxing the same 5 toons over and over and be bored out of my mind. I simply cant get enough resources and it is impossible to strategize resource priority when there is no end in site. You can just increase the team level tomorrow and destroy all my planning. Level 115 vs anything lower puts me at a huge disadvantage which isnt fun… being outplayed because someone chose a different friend badge or mods, that is fun because it is something I control and can strive to do better. i have no control over your level increases, i cant strategize or prepare because you can simply raise it whenever you want. There is no firm TL cap as an end goal (ie 150, 200 ect). There is no firm schedule (ie first monday of the month, 2nd week, ect) just nothing.

What is PerBlue’s goal? Spend time playing the game? Get people to pay more? Just casually play the game?
Right now it is more efficient for me to hoard resources so if you are just trying to reduce balances Id say you are progressing in the wrong direction.

I already understand the value of Mods, you dont need to increase mod power point rewards, you will just be destroying that economy if you say everything else is currently bad. supply and demand, basic economics. Limited mods means mine will be different than other peoples providing me with an advantage that isn’t over powered. Mods are limited and require TIME to accumulate. Mods are effective at two things it gives people customizable teams even if they are the same toons as the opponent just like friend badges give an edge and variety too.

Small tweaks are better, they give an edge not an automatic win or loss. If you increase mods and make them over powered then people are just going to be even more mad because it will just be another (if you dont have it, you automatically lose) and we already see that with badges, gold, and exp.

Boring.
Dont ruin mods. Let mods be the new economy. It gives small edges and doesnt automatically cause you to win or lose. Heck add more variety of Mods (attack speed, armor, tenacity, crit)
Scarcity is how you keep an in game economy alive. Scarcity with small advantages.

Please stop limiting my toon choices with resource reductions. Just please. New characters and their limited chips is fine because that doesnt stop me from using my old toons. Level increases and lack of badges, gold, and exp to keep up with those increases makes it so I cant use my old toons anymore, let alone use the new toons.

[Knight_Joy_III]

Lol I like your choice of comparison.
I wouldnt equate the two to be the same but a detailed explanation also doesnt really exist other than, “economy is bad”

[Meatsqueezer]

@Whiskeyjack honestly Polaris has explained. Just because you don’t like the explanation doesn’t mean she hasn’t.

I don’t like it either. I was hoping the mods would not be such a big part of the game. All of these different resources that can be greatly increased with diamond spending is going to make things much harder for people who barely spend like myself (3 bucks a month. Though I did buy a good 20 deal last month). Invasion rewards helped so much. I’m already feeling the decrease in resources.

Right now I can manage to compete with those shiny fancy teams with all of the new characters and max levels by putting together well thought out counters, but now with ankthwr resource gap to contend with, I imagine quickly falling behind in mod power now too, I imagine things are going to get very tough.

@Polaris after collections, does perblue plan to introduce any more new resources to the game? I really hope the answer is no.

[Pipsqueak]

We have people with advanced degrees in mathematics and statistics who work on these systems.

And therein lies the problem. This is a game. Who is more qualified to give advice on whether something in the game is positive or not - a handful of mathematicians sat poring through graphs, charts and tables, or the dozens, hundreds, of loyal players that play and experience the game every single day, for hours at a time.

I know who I’d trust to provide feedback.

Edited for flag: “boffins” to “mathematicians”. While Boffin is not a derogatory term, it was the only thing I could see that could be taken as offensive by somebody unfamiliar with the word.

[Dread_Pirate_Doc]

@Polaris
Thank you for responding, appreciate it and hope you don’t take the tone here as snarky, but serious. Of course, I had no expectation of seeing the “secret sauce” but you have to ask the question: if the community is this unhappy, is it possible the formulas are wrong? Or at the very least, not accounting for something/factors are weighted incorrectly? Is it POSSIBLE? I appreciate the advanced degrees in mathematics (autocorrect wanted to put MAYHEM in there!) that Per Blue people have. But they ARE human and they ARE fallable. Is it POSSIBLE, they’re not entirely right here? Surely, there’s some middle ground here (and don’t call you Shirley?) that makes sense? I mean, customer sat has to be part of your big picture/long term formulas… right?

After tier 16… and I get the mod fragments, what’s my motivation beyond mod power which as far as I can tell (unless you’ve given details elsewhere I haven’t see) will have minimal impact on the power of my heroes…and only a subset of them?

Finally, this is a game… if my wins aren’t productive and I’m constantly spinning my wheels, where’s the FUN?

Thanks. Looking forward to your response.
-DPD